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re: Belichik or Saban: Who was the better coach and who proved more?
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:55 pm to Geauxgurt
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:55 pm to Geauxgurt
Saban is more accomplished imo. Saban did in multiple styles (defensive and offensive led teams), with multiple different QBs, and had to replace his whole roster every 4 years.
Belichik won with the GOAT QB and lost without him.
Belichik won with the GOAT QB and lost without him.
1
Posted on 1/11/24 at 12:58 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
In college football there are 97 coaches with over a .750 win pct
In the nfl there are 2
It’s wild people are trying to make college sound more difficult to sustain success
Sustaining success in the nfl is the hardest coaching feat in sports to accomplish
In the nfl there are 2
It’s wild people are trying to make college sound more difficult to sustain success
Sustaining success in the nfl is the hardest coaching feat in sports to accomplish
This post was edited on 1/11/24 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:03 pm to lsupride87
all I did was make two statements of facts
I made no comparison at all
you be the judge
I made no comparison at all
you be the judge
Posted on 1/11/24 at 1:52 pm to Green Chili Tiger
Bill Walsh never won without Joe Montana. Bottom line is it's way harder to win in the NFL. In his 17 years at Bama Saban had the number 1 or 2 class 14 times. Saban had way more talent than any coach in college football. And don't forget Belichik drafted Brady. In the NFL there's never a huge discrepancy in talent from team to team like there is in college. At the end of the day Saban is the goat in college and Belichik is the goat in the NFL. And for the record most coaches don't win Super bowls without a great Quarterback.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:03 pm to lsupride87
Exactly! It's way harder to build a team, sustain it and continue to win games in the NFL. Winning a super bowl is leaps and bounds harder to win than a national title. Nobody who seriously covers the sport would disagree with that. It's really hard to win in the NFL. There are no gimmies.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:20 pm to TigerKing19
The fact that some are saying Saban is more impressive is sad. Neither Saban or anyone who really knows the game of football would say what Saban did was more impressive. Peyton won 2, Brees won 1, Rodgers won 1. Shite Marino was the most talented QB for over a decade and Shula, a hall of fame coach couldn't win 1 with him as his QB. Having a great QB doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. This conversation is honestly stupid.
Neither Saban or anyone who really knows the game of football would say what Saban did was more impressive. Peyton won 2, Brees won 1, Rodgers won 1. Shite Marino was the most talented QB for over a decade and Shula, a hall of fame coach couldn't win 1 with him as his QB. Having a great QB doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. This conversation is honestly stupid. Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:
In college football there are 97 coaches with over a .750 win pct
In the nfl there are 2
I'd argue that is because NFL is very dependent on your QB. If you have Brady or Mahomes or Brees or Burrow, then you as a coach win games. Sure a bad coach can be .500 with a good QB but a good coach can look GREAT with a good QB.
I think Belichik is a really good HC that was elevated to greatness by the greatest QB of all time. I would not have this opinion if he hasn't proven that he cant win without Brady. Like I said, its very QB dependent for a HC but I would think the GOAT coach would be able to be .500 or better with or without a great QB. a really good coach, can't over come that.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:35 pm to TigerKing19
quote:
eyton won 2, Brees won 1, Rodgers won 1. Shite Marino was the most talented QB for over a decade and Shula, a hall of fame coach couldn't win 1 with him as his QB. Having a great QB doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL.
I would have agreed before the Brady Belichick split. After the split, Brady went and took a dumpster franchise stuck in mediocrity to World Champions while Bill struggled to be .500 and got worse every year. In this particular instance, the GOAT QB propped up a good HC.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 2:59 pm to GRTiger
quote:outside of Brady so did bill. There’s this thing called free agency and the salary cap.
Bill had a goat QB for 20 years. Nick had to spin a new one up (as well as a brand new team) every few years and still sustained success.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:01 pm to Jim Hopper
Who had both Saban and Belichik retiring in the same year in their money pool?
Seriously 2 of the greatest!
Seriously 2 of the greatest!
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:03 pm to Geauxgurt
Belichick’s legacy problem is that he didn’t gracefully decline. His results fell off a cliff after Brady left, leaving one to wonder how much of that train was really him and not just riding the established QB.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:06 pm to lsupride87
Part of Saban's job was to acquire that talent so that cannot be held agaisnt him. It's his job to do that.
BB is trash without Brady. Only 2 winning seasons without him.
Brady made the playoffs all 3 times without BB and won a super bowl the 1 year he didn't win the division.
BB is trash without Brady. Only 2 winning seasons without him.
Brady made the playoffs all 3 times without BB and won a super bowl the 1 year he didn't win the division.
This post was edited on 1/11/24 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:22 pm to jb21lsu
quote:won 2 Super Bowls as the giants DC, took the browns to the playoffs and has their last playoff win with him as HC. Outside of Joe Gibbs name me a successful NFL HC who didn’t have a hall of fame QB?
BB is trash without Brady. Only 2 winning seasons without him.
This post was edited on 1/11/24 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 1/11/24 at 3:30 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
when you don't have a gaping talent advantage
Posted on 1/11/24 at 5:34 pm to deltaland
quote:
Belichik hasn’t won shite without Tom Brady
While true, people are forgetting how average Brady was his first few years. They won their first couple of Super Bowls on the backs of their defense, not Brady.
Also, Think about their last Super Bowl together. They beat the Rams 13-3. That wasn't because of Brady on his own.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 6:17 pm to Geauxgurt
They are both really really good
Posted on 1/11/24 at 6:56 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
I would have agreed before the Brady Belichick split. After the split, Brady went and took a dumpster franchise stuck in mediocrity to World Champions while Bill struggled to be .500 and got worse every year. In this particular instance, the GOAT QB propped up a good HC.
Tampa was not a dumpster fire team before Brady. They were extremely talented across the board, had mad some poor hires at head coach for a while, and had a headcase at QB that was shown with the Saints how bad he is.
That same Tampa team is going to the playoffs for the 4th straight year and 2nd straight year without Brady. Stop acting like he lifted some team out of mediocrity. Its much like Mahomes. He is a great QB, but put him on the Bengals or some of the other dumpster fires and he's not even sniffing the playoffs, much less a Super Bowl. He lucked into being picked by the perfect situation.
In the end, both Brady and Belichick were pivotal to their run and wins. They can both be great. Also, Brady jumped into a great situation while Belichick was going to have to rebuild. They still were a good team the year after he left. Belichick simply made some bad assistant hires and the talent on the team finally declined from transition over the years. That is on Belichick, but doesn't diminish what he did accomplish.
Posted on 1/11/24 at 6:59 pm to jb21lsu
quote:
Brady made the playoffs all 3 times without BB and won a super bowl the 1 year he didn't win the division.
Against possibly the worst division in NFL history during those 3 years. Hell, they performed identical to Brady's last year this year (actually better in wins). Hmmm....
Not like the AFC East teams got better in those 4 years, right?
Two are in the playoffs and both were fighting for the 2 seed last weekend. You act like nothing changed in the divisions over the years. Posted on 1/11/24 at 7:06 pm to Geauxgurt
Belichik sucks, he only won because of Tom Brady and all you fools know it.
Saban sucks too but he's better than Belichik
Saban sucks too but he's better than Belichik
Posted on 1/11/24 at 7:07 pm to Geauxgurt
Relative to their level, it’s Saban for 3 reasons:
1. Won a title at multiple schools
2. Won with multiple, and pedestrian, quarterbacks
3. More successful coaching tree (despite Saban being part of Belichek’s tree)
Belichek’s sustained success in the nfl is awfully impressive, however, he may never be able to shake the fact that Brady’s greatness is transposed over Belichek’s run, and when Brady left, the patriots fell apart.
1. Won a title at multiple schools
2. Won with multiple, and pedestrian, quarterbacks
3. More successful coaching tree (despite Saban being part of Belichek’s tree)
Belichek’s sustained success in the nfl is awfully impressive, however, he may never be able to shake the fact that Brady’s greatness is transposed over Belichek’s run, and when Brady left, the patriots fell apart.
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