re: EvangelicalBible.com with a boom today

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Most historians disagree with you.

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OK.

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I’m sorry you’re ignorant. Maybe you should do more study.

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How am I ignorant? You said out of all the people in the Ancient World, we have as much or more contemporary evidence about Jesus than those other people. Setting aside that this is asinine on its face (even the Gospels aren't "contemporary" unless we're grading on a curve), tell me how I'm ignorant. Tell me about those other contemporary sources about Jesus.

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Oh good lord. This is so far from the truth, I don't know what to say.

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Here’s some more…

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The historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is both long-established and widespread. Within a few decades of his supposed lifetime, he is mentioned by Jewish and Roman historians, as well as by dozens of Christian writings. Compare that with, for example, King Arthur, who supposedly lived around AD500. The major historical source for events of that time does not even mention Arthur, and he is first referred to 300 or 400 years after he is supposed to have lived. The evidence for Jesus is not limited to later folklore, as are accounts of Arthur.

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As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”.

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About 20 years after Josephus we have the Roman politicians Pliny and Tacitus, who held some of the highest offices of state at the beginning of the second century AD. From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) – reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god. Neither of them liked Christians – Pliny writes of their “pig-headed obstinacy” and Tacitus calls their religion a destructive superstition.

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Strikingly, there was never any debate in the ancient world about whether Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure. In the earliest literature of the Jewish Rabbis, Jesus was denounced as the illegitimate child of Mary and a sorcerer. Among pagans, the satirist Lucian and philosopher Celsus dismissed Jesus as a scoundrel, but we know of no one in the ancient world who questioned whether Jesus lived.

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Notice those who lived in His time, never questioned His existence. Even those who thought Him to be a madman or fraud at least acknowledge He existed. The concept that He never existed is a modern made up lie. And you’ve fallen for it.

The Guardian

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Compare that with, for example, King Arthur

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Well, there you go.

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Flavius Josephus

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Pliny and Tacitus

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Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you, Darth. Have you ever read what these people say about Jesus, or have you just read secondary sources talking about them?

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The concept that He never existed is a modern made up lie. And you’ve fallen for it.

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You've assumed that I've "fallen for it", but the belief that he may not have been a historical figure isn't a modern notion.

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A flesh and blood Jesus of Nazareth never even existed.

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Even Bart Ehrman says Jeus likely existed

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Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you, Darth. Have you ever read what these people say about Jesus, or have you just read secondary sources talking about them?

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I absolutely have because I use to wonder if He actually existed. And while none of them had kind words for Him, they never claimed He didn’t exist and in fact wrote about Him like they would any other person.

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You've assumed that I've "fallen for it", but the belief that he may not have been a historical figure isn't a modern notion.

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You’re very much wrong. I’m sorry, but you are.

I saw the meme on twitter. Who are they? Or what are they?

I just went to their website. They sell Bibles! And from the looks of it, very high quality Bibles.

Well played

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I just went to their website. They sell Bibles! And from the looks of it, very high quality Bibles.

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ah nice so bible salesmen still do exist

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You can argue against His divinity, but the historic record of the existence of Jesus is well known. In fact, of all the people from the ancient world, we have as much or more contemporary proof of his existence than most ancient figures.

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I disagree. There is no proof of a historical Jesus. Paul believed in a celestial Jesus killed by demons in the lowest heaven below the firmament. Mark’s gospel has Jesus doing and saying things word for word already said by Isaiah, Enoch, Paul, etc. Matthew, Luke, and John are redactions of Mark.

Paul describes Jesus as Yahweh taking a human shell of a body and being killed in Heaven by the archons, and makes no mention of a Jesus on earth.

The 4 canonical gospels all differ in how they describe who Jesus was, when he was born, if he was born at all (Mark, John), what happened after he died, etc. was he born under Quirinius or under Herod? It depends which Giselle you read. All we have is the made up fables with no actual evidence of his existence.

I mention Ehrman as one example of someone who is not a Christian but who believes Jesus is an historical figure. Rabbi Tovia Singer is another. His entire ministry is devoted to undermining and discrediting Christianity and even he says Jesus in all likelihood existed.

The contemporary references to Jesus are few, but that's to be expected. Why would many people take note of an itinerant preacher in Galilee? But of the 5 or 6 references that exist, not one of them questioned his existence or denied his existence.

Of course the religion that grew up around him is an entirely different matter and has more to do with Paul than with Jesus. But to say that Jesus never existed, I'd say you're in the minority with that view