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Toxic Fandom: How Hollywood Is Battling Fans Who Are ‘Just Out For Blood’
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:02 pm
quote:
“It comes with the territory, but it’s gotten incredibly loud in the last couple years,” says a veteran marketing executive at a major studio. “People are just out for blood, regardless. They think the purity of the first version will never be replaced, or you’ve done something to upset the canon of a beloved franchise, and they’re going to take you down for doing so.”
Sometimes, toxic fandoms behave reactively. A “House of the Dragon” episode featuring two female characters kissing and an episode of “The Last of Us” focusing on a gay couple were both review bombed — the practice of mobbing sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb with negative user reviews, which gained mainstream attention following the premiere of 2017’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi.” And an entire YouTube ecosystem is devoted to declaring projects like “The Marvels” and “The Boys” “woke garbage” (among other pungent sobriquets).
Just as frequently, the backlash begins before the project has seen the light of day: a Reddit mega-thread dedicated to outrage over “Bridgerton” casting a Black woman (Masali Baduza) as the love interest for Francesca (Hannah Dodd); social media epithets directed at the actors of color cast as elves and dwarves in “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power”; death threats aimed at Leslie Jones during the press tour for 2016’s “Ghostbusters.”
“The vast majority of any fandom are casual fans,” says John Van Citters, VP of Star Trek brand development, who has been with the storied franchise since the 1990s. “The number of people who live and die on their franchises are very, very few, and then those who come after things that they espouse to love with venom are a really, really tiny subset of that already smaller subset of fandom. It’s just much easier to see it now. I don’t know that it’s really that much broader than where things were in 1995 — it’s just that the bullhorn wasn’t there.”
quote:
Still, toxic fandoms have grown so pernicious that they’ve become a fact of life for many — and so powerful that while talent, executives and publicists will privately bemoan the issue, fear of inadvertently triggering another backlash kept several studios from speaking for this story even on background. (As one rep put it, “It’s just a lose-lose.”)
Those who did talk with Variety all agreed that the best defense is to avoid provoking fandoms in the first place. In addition to standard focus group testing, studios will assemble a specialized cluster of superfans to assess possible marketing materials for a major franchise project.
“They’re very vocal,” says the studio exec. “They will just tell us, ‘If you do that, fans are going to retaliate.’” These groups have even led studios to alter the projects: “If it’s early enough and the movie isn’t finished yet, we can make those kinds of changes.”
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Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:11 pm to RLDSC FAN
Of course they focus on those specific examples, rather than the fact they are making uninspired movies in universes that nobody is asking for.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:13 pm to RLDSC FAN
Hollywood makes low-effort shite stew in the hopes a good marketing and PR campaign can make you forget it's low-effort shite stew.
Or maybe they'll just call you racist/sexist for not handing over your money.
Hollywood wants to tell you what you are SUPPOSED to like, they don't want to make content you actually like.
Or maybe they'll just call you racist/sexist for not handing over your money.
Hollywood wants to tell you what you are SUPPOSED to like, they don't want to make content you actually like.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:14 pm to RLDSC FAN
People aren’t out for blood. They’re tired of having an agenda shoved down their throats and franchises they’ve been a fan of for decades be brought down by it. Star Wars is the biggest example of this. They have shite on the franchise. Before shows and movies are released they have directors and actors saying dumb shite like “it’s the gayest Star Wars yet!” And “my goal is to make men uncomfortable”.
And then when those shows are shitty and fail, they scream back “this fanbase is toxic, racist and misogynist!”
And then when those shows are shitty and fail, they scream back “this fanbase is toxic, racist and misogynist!”
This post was edited on 10/3/24 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:15 pm to RLDSC FAN
Hollywood really leaning in to the fan blaming. I’m sure this will work out for them.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:16 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Those who did talk with Variety all agreed that the best defense is to avoid provoking fandoms in the first place.
Some less so than others.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:16 pm to RLDSC FAN
TLDR - Fans of properties being handled by Hollywood are tired of unnecessary bullshite being added by the “geniuses”. How dare they complain?!?
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:21 pm to RLDSC FAN
Blaming the fans is definitely going to work this time!
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:23 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Sometimes, toxic fandoms behave reactively. A “House of the Dragon” episode featuring two female characters kissing and an episode of “The Last of Us” focusing on a gay couple were both review bombed
I actually don't get the HoD backlash - since the World is all up on weird sex stuff constantly. But most of the time when talking about Star Wars and LoTR and comic books, sexuality was never "a point" of the property - then it becomes "the message" - that's the problem.
quote:
Leslie Jones during the press tour for 2016’s “Ghostbusters.”
It's because she went on the defense and made it about race. It was never about race - it was about people waiting 30 years for a seuqle to a beloved film and that sequel having nothing to do with the originals and that it starred approximately 1/2 of a funny person's worth of actor's.
quote:
“The vast majority of any fandom are casual fans,”
The word fan literally comes from "fanatic."
quote:
toxic fandoms
Love attaching that word to everything
quote:
Those who did talk with Variety all agreed that the best defense is to avoid provoking fandoms in the first place. In addition to standard focus group testing, studios will assemble a specialized cluster of superfans to assess possible marketing materials for a major franchise project.
“They’re very vocal,” says the studio exec. “They will just tell us, ‘If you do that, fans are going to retaliate.’” These groups have even led studios to alter the projects: “If it’s early enough and the movie isn’t finished yet, we can make those kinds of changes.”
But answer this simple question, and many who support this or hate these threads on here won't:
Why is it necessary to change a property? We do you have to incur commentary on the first place?
This guy mentions the "purity of the first version" - the problem is that he sees it as a "first version" in the first place.
The Lord of the Rings is not the "first version of the Lord of the Rings" automatically creating space for a second version. It is not a thing to version out and use for your own philosophical wants and desires. That's the point.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:41 pm to RLDSC FAN
They could always just write original content without existing fanbases.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:51 pm to Jcorye1
The are making shitty and lazy content and Hollywood is filled with a bunch of pedo
Hollywood is done for a while IMO
Hollywood is done for a while IMO
Posted on 10/3/24 at 2:55 pm to nes2010
quote:
They could always just write original content without existing fanbases.
General audiences don’t actually want this. All they want is sequels and remakes. Just look at the top 15 movies of 2024 so far. A single rom-com based on a book is as close as you get to original content:
Inside Out 2
Deadpool 3
Despicable Me 4
Dune 2
Godzilla vs Kong 5 (in series)
Kung Fu Panda 4
Bad Boys 4
Planet of the Apes 4 (or 9)
Beetlejuice 2
Twisters 2
Alien: Romulus (7)
It Ends with Us
A Quiet Place 3
Garfield 3
Ghostbusters 5
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:06 pm to Esquire
quote:
General audiences don’t actually want this. All they want is sequels and remakes.
Totally agree. All complaints about redundant, rehashed content can be lain at the feet of the focus groups. People want safe, comfortable IP and this is what they get.
The funny part, as I see it, is people demanding what the authors/creators do. Eat a dick or write it yourself.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:11 pm to RLDSC FAN
I read a rumor that studio executives who met with Pierce Brown about possibly producing a Red Rising series wanted to heavily reduce his involvement so that they could make "creative" changes to his work, and he ultimately refused.
Apparently, one of their suggestions was to hint at gay tension between two of the main characters that are simply best friends in the books, which would fundamentally change the entire story. Nevermind that there are already gay characters in the books.
Hollywood is more terrified of backlash from LGBT Twitter accounts for not being inclusive enough than they are getting hate from the fans of the existing material.
Apparently, one of their suggestions was to hint at gay tension between two of the main characters that are simply best friends in the books, which would fundamentally change the entire story. Nevermind that there are already gay characters in the books.
Hollywood is more terrified of backlash from LGBT Twitter accounts for not being inclusive enough than they are getting hate from the fans of the existing material.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:15 pm to Bluefin
quote:
Apparently, one of their suggestions was to hint at gay tension between two of the main characters that are simply best friends in the books, which would fundamentally change the entire story. Nevermind that there are already gay characters in the books.
I heard similar except that they wanted to make Sevro a girl to create a potential love triangle.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:16 pm to RLDSC FAN
Live by the sequel/remake/reboot/reimagining, unfortunately you have to die by the fans of those original/prior IPs.
They give it away, though:
So, it is quite clear. These folks don't give a fiddler's frick about the fans. They care that the fans now have a say. They care that if they frick over the fans (something they never cared about), in the past the access media would cover for them and now they can't.
THAT'S why they care. The fans have tools with which to fight back when they're fricked over.
#frickHollywood
#Goodriddance
They give it away, though:
quote:
it’s gotten incredibly loud in the last couple years
quote:
review bombed
quote:
a Reddit mega-thread
quote:
social media epithets
quote:
the bullhorn wasn’t there
quote:
fans are going to retaliate.
So, it is quite clear. These folks don't give a fiddler's frick about the fans. They care that the fans now have a say. They care that if they frick over the fans (something they never cared about), in the past the access media would cover for them and now they can't.
THAT'S why they care. The fans have tools with which to fight back when they're fricked over.
#frickHollywood
#Goodriddance
This post was edited on 10/3/24 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:20 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
They think the purity of the first version will never be replaced, or you’ve done something to upset the canon of a beloved franchise
Hey frickface (the writer, not you RLDSC), we don't think they're doing something to upset the canon, we know they're actively doing it. Ya know, because they tell us beforehand.
This is fricking dripping with dismissiveness.
This post was edited on 10/3/24 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:25 pm to Esquire
quote:
They could always just write original content without existing fanbases.
General audiences don’t actually want this. All they want is sequels and remakes.
Eh, that's ignoring the point.
Audiences want to spend time in worlds and with characters they love - that is true. That doesn't mean it remake. And THAT'S why there is backlash to using beloved properties outside of their scope and in "different versions."
Audiences don't know they want something new - They do - when it is made appropriately. The entirety of the MCU's success was making it accessible to a wider audience beyond the comic books (and yes there are plenty of female, gay and non-white characters to pull from in comic books, but they avoided that). At one point the MCU was "new territory" for the most part.
But the commnet you responded to is pointing out - if you want to make a new gay apocalypse film - don't use the Last of Us. If you want to make a gay superhero - don't turn one gay - make a new one. If it's a good character, people will like them.
You don't do anything unique, only face ire, if you take something people love and twist into something it is not.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:26 pm to Esquire
quote:
General audiences don’t actually want this.
I'm going to respectfully disagree here.
quote:
Inside Out 2
Inside Out was a huge hit.
quote:
Deadpool 3
Deadpool 1 was a huge hit.
quote:
Dune 2
Godzilla vs Kong 5 (in series)
Fair point on some of these quite aged franchises (Planet of the Apes would fit there, too)
Frozen II made more money than the original, but Frozen was original in 2013, not that long ago. And the list goes on.
The biggest movie of last year was Barbie. Yes on an existing IP, but a new idea, freshly done and more than a little woke (or maybe anti-woke depending on whom you ask), when you consider everything. But, well-done, knew it's audience and went out there and grabbed it.
So, they don't have to beat franchises to death - make/remake/unmake them until the fans finally vomit, but it is safer to do that than develop new properties. However, if you do decide to cash in on an existing IP, piss on its existing fans at your own financial peril, Hollywood. Don't double down and complain about it when fans you don't really like in the first place fight back.
Posted on 10/3/24 at 3:27 pm to Esquire
quote:
I heard similar except that they wanted to make Sevro a girl to create a potential love triangle.
So dumb and unnecessary
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