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Message
re: Should churches be taxed?
Posted on 5/16/23 at 1:38 pm to The Eric
Posted on 5/16/23 at 1:38 pm to The Eric
quote:
No.... they shouldn't be taxed because the parishioners are already taxed as are the employees who work at the church.
Walmart's customers and employees are taxed.
quote:
In fact I'd say do away with all income taxe
Treat churches the same as corporations? Sounds good to me! What is good for one is good for the other!
0
Posted on 5/16/23 at 1:41 pm to Wing T
“Only the Black Churches tell their congregation how to vote”
Katy texas mega church says hello and hold my beer!
Katy texas mega church says hello and hold my beer!
Posted on 5/16/23 at 1:57 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
I don't like tax exemptions, period. I would prefer lower taxes applied universally.
So you want to tax HOAs, Lions Clubs, Kiwanis Clubs, 4-H Clubs, Neighborhood Watch Organizations, Rotary Clubs, Elks Clubs, Boy Scout troupes, etc.?
If not, then you don't really want income taxes levied universally.
This post was edited on 5/16/23 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 5/16/23 at 2:15 pm to dchog
quote:Goodwill spends 87% of all monies received relative to overhead. They are easily among the most good and charitable organizations around. Rated "A" on the independent ChsrityWatch.
Yes Goodwill as a company makes billions but the local Goodwill where I live makes just enough to keep the doors open.
LINK
But because of a completely fallacious meme that circulated, people think they are a scam, and the CEO has a 8-figure salary.
It was complete horseshite. in 2022, the highest paid employee was the CEO with $469,247.
Posted on 5/16/23 at 11:51 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
So we bloat the government even more by adding more lifetime bureaucrats to come up with, enforce, and audit this new revenue tier system. Right? Bigger government?
And when this is in place… since churches are taxed… they are going to get a say in how their tax money is spent. Correct? In the schools? In the community? On grounds that are publicly owned?
Right?
I wanna say I heard it somewhere that increasing revenue and adding employees has been known to actually turn out to be a good thing, crazy right?
Posted on 5/16/23 at 11:57 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
So we bloat the government even more by adding more lifetime bureaucrats to come up with, enforce, and audit this new revenue tier system. Right? Bigger government?
And when this is in place… since churches are taxed… they are going to get a say in how their tax money is spent. Correct? In the schools? In the community? On grounds that are publicly owned?
Right?
You are right, let them govern themselves and forget about those taxes.. what could possibly go wrong?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 7:13 am to BurntOrangeMan
quote:
I wanna say I heard it somewhere that increasing revenue and adding employees has been known to actually turn out to be a good thing, crazy right?
So ignore. They get a say or not? In schools? Public places?
And for your rebuttal… that’s called the private sector. Adding departments and employees to government bureaucracies is never a positive. If it was, Obama would have had the US booming in a year.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 7:14 am
Posted on 5/17/23 at 7:59 am to fareplay
quote:
They run like a business
Uh, no they don't. You are not charged one penny for attending a church or charged one penny for anything spititual you might receive while at that church and then walking out the door. Tithing is not mandatory, just appreciated.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 8:28 am to CleverUserName
quote:
So ignore. They get a say or not? In schools? Public places?
US Constitution & Bill of Rights
quote:
And for your rebuttal… that’s called the private sector. Adding departments and employees to government bureaucracies is never a positive. If it was, Obama would have had the US booming in a year.
Start a thread on Govt corruption & mismanagement & I'll join you.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 8:36 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Uh, no they don't. You are not charged one penny for attending a church or charged one penny for anything spiritual you might receive while at that church and then walking out the door. Tithing is not mandatory, just appreciated.
This.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 8:40 am to BurntOrangeMan
quote:
let them govern themselves
Scary someone would say this seriously. “Let” then govern themselves. Good Lord.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 8:40 am to BurntOrangeMan
quote:We are a fairly large Church and will be United Methodist for only a few more months. However, this is a very slippery slope as "revenue" and staff salaries is how apportionments are calculated that are sent to the Annual Conference. Other things go into but staff salaries play a large part.
I wanna say I heard it somewhere that increasing revenue and adding employees has been known to actually turn out to be a good thing, crazy right?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 9:11 am to BurntOrangeMan
Hahaha. Now we pull out the Constitution when talking about church involvement in government. But ignore the majority opinions of the justices in the Supreme Court case already referenced as they lay out the Constitutional references and Precedents. Good job. Excellent work.
Can’t have church involvement in government… but by damn we need to tax em!!!! Get ‘em!!!
Ummm… you just said adding more employees and revenue was a good thing. Alluding to more government.
Buuuut you also are wary of govt corruption and mismanagement.
So we add more staff…
To the corruption and mismanagement…
I know… let’s get a local inspector general!! Like the FBI, DOJ, and IRS has! That will keep it from happening.
Can’t have church involvement in government… but by damn we need to tax em!!!! Get ‘em!!!
quote:
Start a thread on Govt corruption & mismanagement & I'll join you.
Ummm… you just said adding more employees and revenue was a good thing. Alluding to more government.
Buuuut you also are wary of govt corruption and mismanagement.
So we add more staff…
To the corruption and mismanagement…
I know… let’s get a local inspector general!! Like the FBI, DOJ, and IRS has! That will keep it from happening.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 9:14 am to fareplay
Yes.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:23 am to fareplay
If a church’s pastor lives in a million dollar mansion, drives expensive cars, and flies around in private jets…..then yes, I believe those types of churches should be taxed.
Joel Osteen out of Houston and the demon tube preacher up around Southlake come to mind. Both of their churches should be taxed.
Joel Osteen out of Houston and the demon tube preacher up around Southlake come to mind. Both of their churches should be taxed.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:46 am to CleverUserName
quote:
Can’t have church involvement in government… but by damn we need to tax em!!!! Get ‘em!!!
You might want to read all of my posts in this thread
quote:
Ummm… you just said adding more employees and revenue was a good thing. Alluding to more government.
Or you have a low cerebral ceiling and poor comprehension that leads to assumption issues fueled by bias.
quote:
Ummm… you just said adding more employees and revenue was a good thing. Alluding to more government.
Buuuut you also are wary of govt corruption and mismanagement.
Evaluating process and leadership can be exclusive from defunding. This is not a novel concept.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:43 am to fareplay
No they should not. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom, and taxing a church would impose on that.
I have read a stat that says 70% of churches in the United States have 100 members or fewer, but 70% of church goers attend churches of 250 members or more. Which is why we have so called mega churches. Taxing the smaller church would in fact probably cause it to close its doors because of simply not being able to pay all of its bills.
There is also another interesting fact about churches. Churches do not have to abide by the ADA. This is because if a church is a home church then the government would require that home owner to become ADA compliant to house a church in their home. However, if the church is not a home church and meets in a building serving the community, when it is able it usually is ADA compliant as to serve the entire community they are located in.
2nd of all, a church is not a "for profit" business (I know that there are exceptions to the rule, with businesses posing as a church). How can you tax something that does not make profits. Sure some churches have a savings account that may or may not be flush with "cash", however, in my over 30 years of church experience this is used for benevolence within the church and community and for any maintenance for the building and property. Though we do get discounts from businesses that we hire to do some of the maintenance, it is not because we expect it or ask for it. We are glad to support our local businesses and pay a fair price.
Pastors, however receive a couple of perks on a personal level. One being a housing allowance that is tax free (that allowance is established by the church. It is only tax free on actual housing expense, and any repairs made based on the housing limit established by the church). Secondly, the pastor if he files with the IRS, he may opt out of Social Security on all salary earned in ministry only. This is a double edged sword, yes he has lower taxes, but ministry salary can not be used to figure Social Security (and who's to say that it will be there for when I get there in 15 years).
So returning to the question presented by the OP, no the church should not be taxed.
I have read a stat that says 70% of churches in the United States have 100 members or fewer, but 70% of church goers attend churches of 250 members or more. Which is why we have so called mega churches. Taxing the smaller church would in fact probably cause it to close its doors because of simply not being able to pay all of its bills.
There is also another interesting fact about churches. Churches do not have to abide by the ADA. This is because if a church is a home church then the government would require that home owner to become ADA compliant to house a church in their home. However, if the church is not a home church and meets in a building serving the community, when it is able it usually is ADA compliant as to serve the entire community they are located in.
2nd of all, a church is not a "for profit" business (I know that there are exceptions to the rule, with businesses posing as a church). How can you tax something that does not make profits. Sure some churches have a savings account that may or may not be flush with "cash", however, in my over 30 years of church experience this is used for benevolence within the church and community and for any maintenance for the building and property. Though we do get discounts from businesses that we hire to do some of the maintenance, it is not because we expect it or ask for it. We are glad to support our local businesses and pay a fair price.
Pastors, however receive a couple of perks on a personal level. One being a housing allowance that is tax free (that allowance is established by the church. It is only tax free on actual housing expense, and any repairs made based on the housing limit established by the church). Secondly, the pastor if he files with the IRS, he may opt out of Social Security on all salary earned in ministry only. This is a double edged sword, yes he has lower taxes, but ministry salary can not be used to figure Social Security (and who's to say that it will be there for when I get there in 15 years).
So returning to the question presented by the OP, no the church should not be taxed.
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