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re: 4 year long study on Wegovy/semaglutide shows heart benefits and safety
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:14 am to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:14 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Multiple threads per week about Cane’s, where the caniac combo has 124g of carbs, 104 g of fat and almost 2000 calories, but so many of are fat because of a hormonal imbalance.
Bro the hormones drive them through the drive thru everyday
1
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:15 am to Lsupimp
quote:
People that take these meds, suddenly the food cravings having stopped, begin to really think on an intentional level about their bodies and food and health.
I hope you’re correct. I would love to see McDonald’s, Fritos and Coke, et al all go out of business. Absolute poison.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:17 am to lsu777
I didn’t know about ddp4. There are drugs that suppress this enzyme, but it doesn't look like it leads to weight loss. I asked chat GPT if there were certain foods that increased this enzyme- “ Yes, certain foods can increase the activity of DPP-4. Foods high in protein, such as meat, fish, eggs, and dairy products, can stimulate the release of DPP-4. Additionally, high-fat meals have been shown to increase DPP-4 activity.” I’ll have to look at those links you posted.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:17 am to Lsupimp
quote:That’s nonsense. Fat people never want to take responsibility for their weight. That’s part of the problem. Never in human history have people been this fat. It’s not a genetic disorder. It’s people eating too much garbage food that is high in calories and is extremely unhealthy because they’re too lazy to cook and/or don’t care about the long-term damage they’re doing to their health because they want to pig out right now.
Even when the science is there about hormonal deficiencies that shows that a high percentage of people never feel satiated due to a specific hormonal deficiency that can now be addressed, people still want to shame the obese with moralistic lectures.
People didn’t magically develop this hormonal condition in the past 30 years.
quote:Well you seem to have other issues and maybe you would be a good candidate for something like this.
FTR, taking this medication has been a life saver for me and my hereditary esophageal issues that were ruining my quality of life. Having to puke every time I take a bite of solid food is a real drag . Being satiated on a protein shake and being able to function at a high level on half the calories is just the blessing my GI tract needed and keeps me out of the emergency room and GI office.
Having said that, I’ve been overweight before. When you restrict calories to lose weight, you will be hungry at times. You have to deal with being hungry for a while as your body adjusts. Your body will get the message, and you will eventually not get hungry like you used to. Drink some water and don’t give in, and it will pass. And I’m not saying people should starve themselves. But they don’t need to reach for the Doritos every time they get a little hungry. You will eventually stop getting hungry as much once your body adjusts to your new way of eating.
Having said that, maybe you actually do have a genetic condition. I don’t know. But for the vast majority of people, they just eat too much and don’t move enough and aren’t willing to do a little bit of work to help themselves.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:17 am to Robin Masters
quote:
I appreciate your overall sentiment but at 50yo I’ve lived long enough to have learned that there is no magic pill. There will be a massive side effect to these drugs. And if history is any guide it will likely come just after the drug companies have recouped their investment plus a few billion more and the subsequent lawsuits will be a few billion less than the profits.
again the medicines have been studied since the late 70s and early 80s....they have been approved and used by diabetics since 2005
so now 2 decades later when we discovered that hey...this shite is really good for weightloss, impulse control etc...and we have 2 decades of data....suddenly its going to start causing all kinds of side effects that we havent seen in the previous 2 decades?
do you realize how stupid you sound?
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:18 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Bro the hormones drive them through the drive thru everyday
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:19 am to lsu777
quote:
it normalizes the hormonal suppression that usually occurs when obese. talking suppression of GLP-1 and GIP through releases of sDPP-4
That makes sense, and describes why I can eat super clean for weeks and after one fast food/bad meal, I instantly only crave bad stuff
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:19 am to Ingeniero
Wow so you're telling me that not carrying around 50 pounds of fat can benefit you?
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:20 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
but the one thing that does bother me about them is that they don’t address the actual root cause, which is our SAM.
So you are calling compounding drivers a root cause. You are wrong. I’m not saying you aren’t sniffing around a valid argument, but the argument you are making is wrong.
The root cause is a hormonal deficiency. That is not really up for debate. It’s factual.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:22 am to BawtHouse
quote:
The root cause is a hormonal deficiency. That is not really up for debate. It’s factual.
But it looks like the processed foods cause the hormonal deficiency, no?
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:23 am to BawtHouse
quote:
So you are calling compounding drivers a root cause. You are wrong. I’m not saying you aren’t sniffing around a valid argument, but the argument you are making is wrong.
The root cause is a hormonal deficiency. That is not really up for debate. It’s factual.
Ok, so have we always had these hormonal imbalances, or are they a relatively recent development? Because again, the obesity epidemic is relatively new. I think it’s you that is calling a driver the root cause.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:25 am to Rust Cohle
quote:
I didn’t know about ddp4. There are drugs that suppress this enzyme, but it doesn't look like it leads to weight loss. I asked chat GPT if there were certain foods that increased this enzyme- “ Yes, certain foods can increase the activity of DPP-4. Foods high in protein, such as meat, fish, eggs, and dairy products, can stimulate the release of DPP-4. Additionally, high-fat meals have been shown to increase DPP-4 activity.” I’ll have to look at those links you posted.
so from what i have researched, dpp-4 is released with large insulin spikes. its inhibition has been studied for t2d patients for couple decades now
quote:
3. DPP-4 and diabetes:
In T2D patients, insulin resistance leads to higher blood glucose levels and a higher level of activated incretins may reverse the increased glucose level in blood. Incretins are a group of metabolic hormones, which decrease blood glucose levels by inducing insulin hormone production from pancreatic ß cells and inhibiting glucagon secretion. Glucagon-like peptide-1 and -2 (GLP-1 and -2), and glucose-dependent insulinotropic peptide (GIP) are examples of incretins [45]. By 1990s, DPP-4 and its association with diabetes came into the light where it was observed that DPP-4 is involved in initial degradation of incretins and thus the proposition to block DPP-4 activity to restore incretin functions become evident [46]. Deacon et al. observed that DPP-4 was a major, if not the only, route for the regulation of GLP-1as DPP-4 inhibitor valine-pyrrolidine treatment could not completely but partially prevented degradation of exogenous GLP-1 in pig [47]. The same group of scientists also noted a similar finding for GIP [48]. Administration of another DPP-4 inhibitor, ile-thiazolidide increased circulating incretins as well as insulin secretion in rats [49]. These studies together establish some preclinical bases of the hypothesis that inhibiting DPP-4 activity leads to increased circulating GLP-1 that can restore insulin secretion and regulate blood glucose levels in T2D patients. After several years of the initial hypothesis was launched [47], a 4-weeks clinical trial was conducted, and the results of this short-term administration of DPP-4 inhibitor was published for the first time in 2002 [50]. Subsequently, a clinical trial spanning one year was performed, and the anti-diabetic effects of sustained DPP-4 inhibitor vildagliptin were suggested [51].
Those early results were soon followed by numerous experimental as well as clinical studies. In 2006, DPP-4 inhibitor sitagliptin was approved as a drug to control blood glucose level in T2D patients. Nowadays, DPP-4 inhibitors are well-recognized medicines that are used to reduce hyperglycemia in T2D patients, and two types of DPP-4 inhibitors are used clinically worldwide. There are DPP-4 structure mimetic and non-peptidomimetics. In 2006, the FDA approved the very first type of DPP-4 inhibitors, which are structural mimetics. Sitagliptin, vildagliptin, and saxagliptin are examples of this first type of inhibitors. FDA approved first non-peptidomimetic inhibitors in 2011. Alogliptin and linagliptin are examples of the second type of DPP-4 inhibitors, non-peptidomimetics. Almost all clinical studies have shown reduced glycated haemoglobin % (HbA1c%) and fasting blood glucose (FBG) level in T2D patients with different types of DPP-4 inhibitors administration such as sitagliptin [52, 53], vildagliptin [54, 55], linagliptin [56], saxagliptin [57, 58].
also found this study that looked at food derived DPP-4 inhibitors...so yea think we have our answer on if its processed foods causing its release
quote:
Safe and convenient methods to prevent diseases, especially chronic and metabolic disorders such as T2DM, hypertension, etc., are widely sought. Diets rich in specific bioactive ingredients, including food protein-derived peptides, have potential application in the prevention and management of T2DM. Food-derived peptides may be a complementary strategy to help regulate glycemia in diabetic or prediabetic individuals. Thus, it is necessary to find clinical evidence of the effect of food-derived peptides in regulating blood glucose. It is also necessary to develop powerful strategies by which to discover more food-derived DPP-IV inhibitory ingredients, not only purified active peptides, but hydrolysates or peptide mixtures, which may show greater safety and potency.
LINK
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:25 am to Prominentwon
quote:
You mentioned processed foods in your first post. Is there a direct correlation between processed food and the lack of GLP-1? Or is it just genetic?
In my mind, it has to be something environmental, and the likely culprit is all the shitty food we Americans now consume. Not abdicating personal responsibility, but our government has frickED us allowing what they allow in the foods being sold to us. Our foods have never been lower quality or more expensive than right now. Ridiculous!
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:25 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Because like most weight loss strategies, without lifestyle changes weight will probably return within a few years. Its just another magic pill instead of behavior modifications.
That doesn’t seem to be the case at all actually. I think you might be a little misinformed.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:27 am to Prominentwon
quote:
You know, if you just lifted weights and walked half a mile and not be such a lazy fatty, your esophagus wouldn’t be an issue,
Bro, in February two of my children took me to dinner on separate occasions and both times I had to leave the table to vomit. And I’m not even an old guy yet. Last year I had to be hospitalized after taking a single bite of meat and throwing up hundreds of times in a 6 hour period. Swallowing my own saliva was too much. To take this med and not have to do that is amazing. And FTR, the medical community is completely unaware of this other use of this medication. No doctor I have talked to even seems to process the idea of just giving the GI tract an extended rest may have a great effect on overall health.
And then there are the compulsion / addiction issues these meds can address…
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:27 am to BawtHouse
quote:
When a patient has a GLP-1 deficiency, the sensation of hunger is not regulated properly and patients report “food noise.” For most, this “food noise” is not able to be overcome by will power, fad diets, “move more eat less,” etc.
will these drugs eventually be prescribed for people who have binge eating disorder (BED)?
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:28 am to BawtHouse
quote:
The root cause is a hormonal deficiency.
What you are doing with this bullshite is trying to justify people being lazy and fat slobs. These folks are addicted to things like fast food, potato chips, and sodas/sugary drinks. Lets not sugar coat this. They are fat not because of 'hormones' but because of the idiotic choices they make regarding diet and exercise. That is an actual fact. There might be 2 or 3 people on this whole website whose hormonal balance couldn't be improved by proper diet, exercise, sleep, lifestyle changes and natural supplementation. This isn't to say they might eventually need something else in the future but it can be fixed the problem is nobody wants to put in the work it takes.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:29 am to BawtHouse
quote:If people were eating healthy foods like fruit and veggies, they could eat constantly and still not get fat. The problem people have is the kinds of foods they eat, and the amount they eat.
Incorrect. The hormonal imbalance is the root cause driver behind the majority of cases of people with the disease of obesity. Fix the root cause, and the symptoms of the disease subside.
Now, there are compounding issues further down the line. The availability of calorie dense foods has become more and more a driver, but it isn’t the root cause. If patients don’t have the food noise and satiation is achieved with less food intake and faster, the availability of calorie dense foods wouldn’t cause symptoms of the disease of obesity. The regulatory process in the body is the root cause.
I’ll avoid the rabbit holes and keep on point. However, for the record, there are plenty of compounding issues. One of them is our food supply and the lack of financial access to healthy whole foods
Back in the 1950’s, a McDonald’s meal was the equivalent today of a single cheeseburger, a small fry and a small drink. That is what an adult filled up on. Now, people are scarfing down giant double patty cheeseburgers with bacon, a large fry and a gigantic soda. Multiple times a week.
People are just eating way more now than humans ever used to, and the food they are eating way more of now is way more calorie dense and unhealthy. That combination leads to people being huge. And that way of eating changes the brain chemistry to continue to eat that way. Humans weren’t born with this imbalance. It has been conditioned due to habit.
If people would stop eating like this and deal with the temporary discomfort, their body will change and adapt to their new way of eating. Most people just aren’t willing to do it. If these drugs can help people to kick the habit like a nicotine patch does for smokers, then I can see the value in that.
But don’t sit here and sell me this nonsense that obesity is some natural condition for most people and they have no culpability. That’s absolute nonsense.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:31 am to Lsupimp
quote:I’m confused. You were overweight but would throw up when eating food so you take a drug to help you to not eat food?
Bro, in February two of my children took me to dinner on separate occasions and both times I had to leave the table to vomit. And I’m not even an old guy yet. Last year I had to be hospitalized after taking a single bite of meat and throwing up hundreds of times in a 6 hour period. Swallowing my own saliva was too much. To take this med and not have to do that is amazing. And FTR, the medical community is completely unaware of this other use of this medication. No doctor I have talked to even seems to process the idea of just giving the GI tract an extended rest may have a great effect on overall health.
You’re going to have to explain this better because I do not follow.
Posted on 5/15/24 at 8:32 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Ok, so have we always had these hormonal imbalances, or are they a relatively recent development? Because again, the obesity epidemic is relatively new. I think it’s you that is calling a driver the root cause.
highly palatable, highly processed foods cause the release of sDPP-4 which causes the suppression of GLP-1 and GIP which are the hormones that make you feel full
read the link i posted above. theere are natural sDPP-4 suppressing foods and those that cause instant release into the adipose tissue.
so yea its a modern issue because of modern foods aka Standard American Diet.
whole unprocessed foods can absolutely help. its why diets like keto/carnivore/whole 30 are so good at getting people to eat less calories and more protein without knowing. problem is people still dont stick to it because of the dopamine response they get from the processed foods
the medicine helps reduce the food noise in the brain, helps them stick to the whole foods at a much higher rate and helps them feel full
it is absolutely a hormonal imbalance.
Can it be overcome with discpline....yep...i did it and others can too but i also had a history of loving to lift weights, a history of loving physical activity and a history of really liking to be in shape.
i understand this isnt everyone.
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