re: St. Joan of Arc was burned at the stake on this day in 1431…

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My great x8ish uncle was burned at the stake for heresy in 1555 in England during the Marian Persecutions. Died for his Protestant beliefs so I could one day be a good Catholic like he should have been.

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This went from a really interesting fact to one of the funniest posts I have ever read on here

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She remains “the only figure in history ever to be both condemned and canonized by the Catholic Church.”

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Catholic church: "Sorry about all the burning at the stake thing. Hopefully giving you the saint "thing" will make up for it. Do you want some burn cream?"

“First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people…”
— 1 Timothy 2:1

I will concede the intercession v mediator distinction. Do you concede it re: the “priesthood”? Anyway, that’s mission creep into another heresy.

That verse in 1 Timothy proves Christians should intercede to God for other living people. Still has nothing to do with dead people. Man is appointed once to die, then the judgment. Then the taking prayer requests from those on earth. Cool stuff.

Paul is writing to Timothy and the church, instructing living believers to pray to God.

And back to the full context—

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
— 1 Timothy 2:5

Paul says believers should pray for all people because God is Savior and Christ is the one mediator. He does not say, “Ask departed saints to intercede.” It says the church should pray.

Intercession is commanded. Praying to departed saints (dead people—how do you actually even know where they were. Many will say Lord! Lord!) is not. The fact that Romanists don’t see this distinction is disturbing.

“…the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”
— Revelation 5:8

The text says the elders have bowls representing the prayers of the saints. It does not say believers on earth prayed to the elders. It does not say the elders heard prayer requests addressed to them. It does not command the church to invoke them.

Also, in Revelation, symbolic imagery is everywhere: harps, bowls, incense, beasts, horns, eyes, scrolls, seals. You cannot simply turn an apocalyptic symbol into a devotional practice unless the text itself authorizes it.

Of course Romanists ignore symbolism selectively. Sheep from goats? Symbol. Eating human flesh and eating human blood: LITERAL!!

Even if the elders are aware of the prayers, awareness does not equal permission to address them. God may reveal prayers to heavenly beings. That does not mean Christians may pray to heavenly beings.

Angels know and do things in Scripture. That does not authorize praying to angels. (Honest question, does the current version of Romanism authorize prayer to angels? If not then why not?)

Revelation 5:8 shows heavenly presentation of prayers before God. It does not show earthly Christians invoking departed saints. (Brings up another heresy: canonization.)

“They cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood…?’”
— Revelation 6:10

This is the opposite of the Romanist heresy in issue. The martyrs cry out to God, not to other saints. They are not being prayed to. They are themselves praying to the Lord.

Also, their prayer is not a general intercession for Christians on earth. It is a cry for divine justice concerning their own martyrdom:

“How long before you will judge and avenge our blood…?”

That is not the same as “St. Peter, protect me,” or “Mary, pray for us sinners.” The text does not show anyone on earth asking them anything.

And Revelation 8:1–5 again shows prayers ascending to God. It does not establish invocation of departed believers.

Departed saints may pray to God. That does not mean we may pray to departed saints or ask them to pray for us. (Just saying that “aloud” makes me cringe.)

Then one of the elders addressed me…”
— Revelation 7:13

John was receiving a prophetic vision by divine revelation. That is not ordinary Christian prayer. John did not initiate devotional contact with the dead. He was caught up in a God-given apocalyptic vision.

This is the same basic category as Moses and Elijah appearing at the Transfiguration. Their appearance does not authorize Christians to pray to Moses or Elijah or ask them to pray for us.

There is a massive difference between:

A. God sovereignly allowing a prophet to see and hear heavenly beings in a vision; and
B. Christians deliberately addressing departed saints in prayer.

Scripture contains examples of God sending angels or allowing visions. It also contains warnings against seeking contact with the dead. The fact that God may initiate heavenly communication does not mean man may initiate it.

Revelation records a unique prophetic vision. It does not authorize ordinary believers to communicate with departed saints.

I often tire of people evoking a “category error,” but the praying to dead people or asking dead people to pray for us is one.

The bad Romanist syllogism:
Saints in heaven are alive.
Saints in heaven pray.
Saints in heaven may know some earthly things.
Therefore we may pray to them.

But that conclusion does not follow.

The disputed issue is not whether departed saints are alive in Christ. They are.

The disputed issue is not whether departed saints worship and pray. They do.

The disputed issue is not whether God can reveal earthly events to heaven. He can.

The issue is whether Scripture authorizes Christians to address departed saints in prayer and seek their intercession or protection.

No text commands it, no text models it, and several texts warn against religious recourse to the dead. It is bad Roman pagan-syncretic dogma.